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19821217-Srimad-Bhagavatam.8.19.41-New-Orleans-Literal-Version

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Friday, December 17, 1982
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19821217-Srimad-Bhagavatam.8.19.41-New-Orleans-Literal-Version
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19821217-Srimad-Bhagavatam.8.19.41-New-Orleans-Literal-Version


The following is a lecture given by His Holiness Jayapataka Swami on December 17th, 1982 in New Orleans, Louisiana. The class begins with a reading from the Srimad-Bhagavatam, 8th Canto, Chapter 19, Verse 41.

Jayapataka Swami: parag riktam apurnam va

Devotees: parag riktam apurnam va

Jayapataka Swami: aksaram yat tad om iti

Devotees: aksaram yat tad om iti

Jayapataka Swami: yat kiñcid om iti bruyat

Devotees: yat kiñcid om iti bruyat

Jayapataka Swami: tena ricyeta vai puman

Devotees: tena ricyeta vai puman

Jayapataka Swami: bhiksave sarvam om kurvan

Devotees: bhiksave sarvam om kurvan

Jayapataka Swami: nalam kamena catmane

Devotees: nalam kamena catmane

Jayapataka Swami:

Translation:

“The utterance of the word om signifies separation from one’s monetary assets. In other words, by uttering this word one becomes free from attachment to money because his money is taken away from him. To be without money is not very satisfactory, for in that position one cannot fulfill one’s desires. In other words, by using the word om one becomes poverty-stricken. Especially when one gives charity to a poor man or beggar, one remains unfulfilled in self-realization and in sense gratification.”

Translation with word-to-word repetition:

“The utterance of the word om

Devotees: “The utterance of the word om

Jayapataka Swami: signifies separation

Devotees: signifies separation

Jayapataka Swami: from one’s monetary assets.

Devotees: from one’s monetary assets.

Jayapataka Swami: In other words,

Devotees: In other words,

Jayapataka Swami: by uttering this word

Devotees: by uttering this word

Jayapataka Swami: one becomes free from attachment to money

Devotees: one becomes free from attachment to money

Jayapataka Swami: because his money is taken away from him.

Devotees: because his money is taken away from him.

Jayapataka Swami: To be without money is not very satisfactory,

Devotees: To be without money is not very satisfactory,

Jayapataka Swami: for in that position one cannot fulfill one’s desires

Devotees: for in that position one cannot fulfill one’s desires.

Jayapataka Swami: In other words,

Devotees: In other words,

Jayapataka Swami: by using the word om

Devotees: by using the word om

Jayapataka Swami: one becomes poverty-stricken.

Devotees: one becomes poverty-stricken.

Jayapataka Swami: Especially when one gives charity .

Devotees: Especially when one gives charity

Jayapataka Swami: to a poor man or beggar,

Devotees: to a poor man or beggar,

Jayapataka Swami: one remains unfulfilled

Devotees: one remains unfulfilled

Jayapataka Swami: in self-realization

Devotees: in self-realization

Jayapataka Swami: and in sense gratification.”

Devotees: and in sense gratification.”

Jayapataka Swami: Purport by Srila Prabhupada:

Devotees: Jaya.

Jayapataka Swami:
Maharaja Bali wanted to give everything to Vamanadeva, who had appeared as a beggar, but Sukracarya, being Maharaja Bali’s familial spiritual master in the line of seminal succession, could not appreciate Maharaja Bali’s promise. Sukracarya gave Vedic evidence that one should not give everything to a poor man. Rather, when a poor man comes for charity one should untruthfully say, “Whatever I have I have given you. I have no more.” It is not that one should give everything to him. Actually the word om is meant for om tat sat, the Absolute Truth. Omkara is meant for freedom from all attachment to money because money should be spent for the purpose of the Supreme. The tendency of modern civilization is to give money in charity to the poor. Such charity has no spiritual value because we actually see that although there are so many hospitals and other foundations and institutions for the poor, according to the three modes of material nature a class of poor men is always destined to continue. Even though there are so many charitable institutions, poverty has not been driven from human society. Therefore it is recommended here, bhiksave sarvam om kurvan nalam kamena catmane. One should not give everything to the beggars among the poor.

The best solution is that of the Krsna consciousness movement. This movement is always kind to the poor, not only because it feeds them but also because it gives them enlightenment by teaching them how to become Krsna conscious. Therefore… We are therefore opening hundreds and thousands of centers for those who are poor, both in money and in knowledge, to enlighten them in Krsna consciousness and reform their character by teaching them how to avoid illicit sex, intoxication, meat-eating and gambling, which are the most sinful activities and which cause people to suffer, life after life. The best way to use money is to open such a center, where all may come live and reform their character. They may live very comfortably, without denial of any of the body’s necessities, but they live under spiritual control, and thus they live happily and save time for advancement in Krsna consciousness. If one has money, it should not be squandered away on nothing. It should be used to push forward the Krsna consciousness movement so that all of human society will become happy, prosperous and hopeful of being promoted back home, back to Godhead. The Vedic mantra in this regard reads as follows:

parag va etad riktam aksaram yad etad om iti tad yat kiñcid om iti ahatraivasmai tad ricyate; sa yat sarvam om kuryad ricyad atmanam sa kamebhyo nalam syat."

Thus end the Purport of Text 41, Chapter 19, Canto 8, from the Chapter in the Matter of The Lord Begs Charity from Bali Maharaja, of the Srimad-Bhagavatam, the Great Purana.

Now we know why India is broke. Too much Om, not enough Hare Krishna. (laughter) Hindu… Hindu Sammelans, big Hindu melas that means gatherings all the people yell out in unison Om. When they want to make a vote, all in favor say Om. Then they give their charity not to the Krishna conscious people but only to opening hospitals for beggars, all these things. So here we can see Sukracarya thought, we are going to be separated from all their wealth. That’s why they are so poor. They stopped serving Krishna because of Sankaracarya philosophy, impersonal philosophy.

Because actually wherever there is Krishna there is Lakshmi, Lakshmi or the Goddess of Fortune who represents all wealth and opulence. She is always desired by the materialist. They are always praying to Lakshmi to be with them… their fortune to be with them especially the gamblers and the business people and in general the materialist will always want the good fortune or the Goddess of Fortune to be with them. But She is known as Cancala, she is very uh, fickle, very whimsical in where she stays… I mean she doesn’t just stay, she is kind of restless, she doesn’t stay in one place very long. she stays some time and then goes away. But there is one place she always stays and that’s on the chest of Krishna, on the chest of Narayana. She is always either serving His lotus feet or is on His chest but she’s always with Narayana. So if someone wants to get the Goddess of Fortune, the easiest way is to capture Krishna, you see.

So Krishna, He can be captured very easily by engaging in sankirtana, by glorifying Him. Sankirtana means to glorify the Lord. When many people glorify together its sankirtana, when several together its kirtana, and when its individual then its japa or kirtana, like that. Just like now all over the world devotees, they may not be physically in one place but in consciousness they are all together, they are all engaged in the sankirtana yajna. And they’re all engaged in glorifying Krishna. So this sankirtana yajna of glorifying Krishna actually will bring good fortune to all of the people both materially and spiritually. Even if a person is uh, engaged somehow or another in service of Krishna unknowingly which is known as ajnata-sukrti or an unknown good work, an unknown service to Krishna. That means that by accident a person does, even then that person is benefited.

There is a story in the Vedas about a ghee wick which was going out and at that moment one little mouse I believe, mouse or cockroach, or some… i think it was a mouse came up and started to poke at the little cotton swab to eat the… whatever ghee was left, but the flame was just flickering and about to go out. When the mouse pushed it to uh, eat it, then it shot up because then the flame got some more wick to burnt on, and it shot up. The mouse got scared and ran away. So that mouse was elevated to uh… to Vaikuntha because of the service that he had done. It didn’t have to take birth again. Then that service, it was taken that… just after that the mouse died, it was taken that it had offered arati to the Lord. By pushing, that light went up, it was about to go out, so it had done. Of course the mouse had no idea whatsoever. So this was an ajnata-sukrti.

In other words even a little service, especially if it is done directly for the Lord, that is uh, so im… so important. In fact it the duty of the brahmacaris especially to go and beg on behalf of the spiritual master. In India Prabhupada gave the example that every day the brahmacari should go door to door to the grhasthas and they would collect alms and they would bring it back to the spiritual master. He specially told us how in their collection at one point uh, for Bhaktisiddhanta when they were preaching, just in the beginning… the Gaudiya Matha had just started in Calcutta, that there was so little collection that there was hardly enough for everyone, in fact it wasn’t enough. There just enough for Bhaktisiddhanta and a little left. So they would first give everything, prepare and give everything to the spiritual master and Bhaktisiddhanta would be crying that how and praying to Krishna to send more because it wasn’t enough for everyone, you see. So, it was a great austerity, it was a test by Krishna but uh, they continued. And of course eventually the Gaudiya Math by the preaching of Bhaktisiddhanta, his purity, it uh, expanded more and more, and they got over those difficulties.

So sometimes there is difficulty and sometimes there is uh, some uh, better situations but the devotee is supposed to do this uh, austerity in order to develop humility, determination, uh, being detached whether a person gives or doesn’t give, one is uh, not going to stop trying to preach Krishna consciousness or to try to collect from the next person, you see. One gives the opportunity, one tries to be more and more expert in presenting uh, in a positive way the uh, proposition of serving Krishna and depending on that person’s good fortune, and the devotees desire and the mercy of the Lord, that person will be able to engage in service or not. So everyone who by the mercy of the devotee somehow or another is able to engage in devotional service, that is to their permanent benefit.

We read about how a person to come into Krishna consciousness, they need some previous assets in most cases. Of course Lord Caitanya’s special mercy is there, that even someone without assets can be brought in. But how is that performed? That is done by devotee engaging someone in service. That starts to build up their spiritual assets. For a person to come in to the temple and if he is immediately has a urge to engage in devotional service. He’s eager to hear about Krishna, he has some attraction for chanting, that’s a very advanced stage. If someone just walks off the streets and has these symptoms well that’s every indication that uh, that person was probably engaging in some kind of devotional service in his previous life. In most cases people are not very interested in spiritual life, they don’t have very much attraction, and basically uh, they are absorbed in their material thoughts and material affairs. So it’s a devotee, out of his uh, causeless mercy goes out and engages those people in service, getting donations for them… from them, giving them literature, using the money collected… giving it to Krishna and using it to preach Krishna consciousness is the greatest benediction for people, you see that, Lakshmi should not be used for sense gratification. It should only be used for the devotional service of the Lord.

Srila Prabhupada explained that if a person accepts a donation, he becomes indebted to the person who gives the donation and as a result he may have to accept that person as his son or daughter in a future life to pay back the debt of that person giving money if he uses that money for his own sense gratification. Therefore the profession of begging is considered to be very risky in terms of karma. But a Krishna conscious devotee doesn’t use the money for sense gratification, gives it to the service of Guru and Krishna. So whatever karma, whatever is absorbed that person becomes rather, Krishna becomes indebted to him in that sense. So that person gets rewarded by opportunities to serve Krishna more and more and to ultimately achieve complete liberation, you see. Of course if the devotee doesn’t complete the cycle then of course he may have an unusual son in the future. It’s hard to say but this is the karma involved.

So sometimes people are very stingy, they don’t want to give any money. I remember that one time this devotee was preaching in Calcutta and the person was very very friendly “Oh! You are great devotees! You have blessed my house.” Very very enthusiastic type of Indian gentlemen. And after about an hour of him talking and preaching and very friendly, the boy asked I you could pay one rupee and buy a magazine you see. He gave a magazine “Oh! What a beautiful magazine! This is a wonderful thing.”, big house and then he said “Yes could you give a donation of a rupee to cover the printing cost.” “Oh! It is not free?” Then he gave back the magazine and then he offered, “Please please take a glass of water.” “No no that’s okay.”

“No! no! Please take a glass!”

He is forcing to take a glass. "No! no! no!" He would give a glass. Finally all right you can give water. I'll take some water. (laughs) So sometimes you get people that they are so miserly that to actually do some practical service to Krishna, they just don’t want to do it. They are willing to do everything but actually part with that thing which is dear to them their money, their Lakshmi, give to the service of Krishna.

One another story Prabhupada told us that there was a brahmacari, he was collecting door to door but nobody was giving any donations. Nobody, nothing, nothing. They just, every place he was going they would refuse. Finally he went to one house and the lady of the house came out and he said “Can you offer any donation for service to Guru and Krishna?” She called back to her husband, he was sitting eating his meal. There is a brahmacari here. He wants to know if we have anything to give. He said, “No we dont have anything.” She said “Nothing? Anything.” He said anything do we have. “Tell him he can have the ashes from our wood fire.” She said, “Oh you can have the ashes from our fire.”, you know. What is the value of ash? You see, no value. It’s like “You can have our cigarette butts from the ash tray.” It’s nothing. So the brahmacari by that time he said “Nobody has even offered anything. At least they are offering something.” So he said “Alright give it why don’t you. Why all the talk?” (laughs) Then Prabhupada was laughing. “Give me your ashes, stop talking about it.”, you know. (laughs)

The point is that even they talk about it and at least go through the effort of giving something you benefit. So generally the grhasthas, we see here, Sukracarya, his mood. He says all right give a person a donation but tell him it’s all you got. Just give him some token. Don’t, this is Visnu He is going to take everything. This is what he is actually saying. “This logic may be all right for some ordinary beggar but of course this is Visnu, this is Visnu, He is going to take everything.” So Bali Maharaja he is a devotee at heart. His grandfather is Prahlada Maharaja. He knows that “My duty is to give to Visnu everything. He is the possessor, He is begging from me and I promised. How can I refuse Him?” Sukracarya is using the ordinary morality, ordinary logic of the Vedas that “If some beggar comes obviously you don’t give the beggar everything because then he will take everything and he may misuse it and uh, you won’t have any money. How will you be able to materially be uh… function, how will you spiritually be able to engage in your service to Krishna?” It’s like a material moral instruction of the Vedas, practical instruction for ordinary cases. This is not ordinary case. Visnu Himself is coming, you see. So in the same way that there people might think that “Well, I give something to these devotees, something to these people…” but actually even if they give everything they won’t be the loser. If they give everything to an ordinary beggar they may lose but if they give everything to the devotee, even if they give more than what they would think is ordinarily appropriate actually still they benefit unlimitedly, like so much more.

In fact there was one great businessman in Calcutta who was very devoted to Bhaktisiddhanta. And at the end of his life when he understood Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati Thakura wanted to build a temple at Mayapur for Lord Caitanya he gave every last penny, lakhs of rupees, everything. He was what they called lakhpati, that means he was hundredthousandaire which in those days it was like being a millionaire in these days. And he gave everything right to the last penny, the last paisa, gave the whole thing to Bhaktisiddhanta and then Bhaktisiddhanta I believe only gave only one Babaji. That was the only person he gave Babaji. He said he wasn’t able to do much preaching. He was always doing business he was old. He said you just stay here, he stayed by their temple and chanted japa for the rest of his life and did little service at the temple. That just as you go on the gate of Lord Caitanya’s birthplace you see on the left there is a little temple and that person's uh, deity is there. They put a little deity and his samadhi I believe, must be samadhi in some temple there. And that’s history of that person. He gave everything. So, actually giving everything like that he became completely liberated. He Krishna then automatically, ye yatha mam prapadyante tams tathaiva bhajamy aham, Krishna says “As a person surrenders unto Me so I reciprocate with him.” So naturally that person gave everything then Krishna will give him everything, give him His eternal devotional service.

Krishna sees how much we are holding back. If we don’t hold anything back, if we are trying, or at least we are desiring or trying to not hold anything back then naturally Krishna will reciprocate fully. So in every type of service there are certain times when there is an intense opportunity of surrender you see. In the temple president service there are times which are very trying, which are, put lot of pressure on a person. Time in… different preaching there are these times of pressure while in sankirtana of course the time when the most pressure is put on is during the time of marathon. When one, all out from morning to night tries to focus all of the energy and especially in the west there is a good opportunity that comes is this Christmas time when people still to some extent have some kind of a mood of giving in charity. And actually generally they are just giving to beggars, or generally just giving just to their own family members. Charity begins at home and probably usually ends there too. But in general they have a little bit of giving mood they get some bonus or extra pay checks also. So it’s an opportunity for the devotees to create an unlimited good sukrti, a good spiritual asset for so many people even they know or they don’t know. If they knowingly give that “Oh this is for Krishna.”, of course they will benefit even more by their conscious gift, even if unknowingly they give still they benefit. As long as we see very carefully that everything goes to Krishna. In fact if a person knowingly gives but the devotee doesn’t give, then that person even gets the benefit, you see. That Prabhupada also said but then that devotee will get an offense but if they unknowingly give… of course then that depends on the devotee what he uses it for. Then accordingly they get a, the reciprocation.

So everyone coming to Krishna consciousness movement is giving everything for preaching Krishna consciousness. So Prabhupada said that gives unlimited, an unlimited reciprocation. A person who is preaching Krishna consciousness that means that all the people that are being delivered. Say a person contributes he gets the share of the preaching which is an unlimited factor. Preaching means to liberate the souls from material birth and death. So in that way they benefit so much that its beyond any exact calculation. So it’s a great opportunity, so if devotees very enthusiastic to try to reach every possible person you see. Maybe by just a little uh, more enthusiasm, more concentrated effort, another ten people are reached, another twenty people are reached.

Of course on this side we also get Lakshmi which we can use for preaching for our programs, for book distribution, which is needed. Not that we are abstract or detached from money. I remember one time Prabhupada said… gave an example that in India there is this one sadhu he collects lakhs of rupees, lot of money, you see, but he won’t personally touch it. He will all put it down in front and he’ll you know, he’ll if they, turn his hand like this away and put on a whole thing. He’ll have his secretaries pick it all up but he will not touch money. So then Prabhupada said that I will not go like this you know and turn my hand, I will go like this, two hands, you give. (laughter) You give as much money you like, because I will use it for Krishna, you see. We are not impersonalists. Actually that impersonalist, what does he need money for? They have no real use for money, still they are collecting money and building temple, even though they are not actually preaching. So it’s ridiculous the whole act they put on. Krishna Consciousness is very straight forward you see. It’s not that we have anything to be shy about. We have every right, we are like tax collectors, we have every right to collect Lakshmi from the hands of materialists and engage it in the hands of… in the service of Krishna.

Of course a preacher is like a white sheet meaning that if there are any type of blemishes or any kind of complaints, then in the future that shows up a lot, makes it more and more difficult to preach. So one has to try to avoid creating any kind of stigma in people’s mind for giving in the future. That means you know, that one has to use some discretion in using the different tactics. At the same time one has to try to engage as many people as possible, as much as they can be engaged. And by this then one is actually doing them a big service. And that’s also giving the facility of printing so many more books, of or doing so many other devotional services for the services of the Lord.

So this is the basic understanding. Here Sukracarya’s very conscious about preserving the wealth but we understand that by Prabhupada’s instruction that it’s more important to be very conscious to see that all wealth is used in the service of Krishna then one fortune and one’s success in life spiritually materially, every aspect is preserved. Just as Krishna says in the Bhagavad Gita, yoga-ksemam vahamy aham you see, I’ll give you what you, I’ll preserve what you have and provide what you need, you see, for the devotees. So the devotees simply, his responsibility is simply to see that his every thought, word and deed is engaged in the service of Krishna and Krishna He looks out for His devotee. The more we are able to depend upon Krishna, the more Krishna will reciprocate with that. That dependence doesn’t mean non-action. It means active dependence. It means taking initiative to serve Krishna under the guidance of Guru, under the guidance of the Vaisnavas, under the control of the spiritual discipline, and within that service learning to depend upon Krishna, learning to uh, take one’s enthusiasm, take one’s uh, inspiration from Krishna. Not from material causes which may or may not be there. So in this way one becomes very steady, and becomes very uh, determined more and more to be fixed in Krishna consciousness.

Hare Krishna Hare Krishna

Krishna Krishna Hare Hare/

Hare Rama Hare Rama

Rama Rama Hare Hare

Any questions?

Yes?

Devotee: So what is the… ultimately the whole purpose of sankirtan is not (indistinct) how big you do… (indistinct).

Jayapataka Swami: Well, best… what they say? Good better and best. One side of it is if a devotee, how sincerely he is trying. I f a person is trying not diverting any energy, it’s just like everything has its intensity. A person may be engaged the whole time but then the tempo or the momentum may be say half speed of what his potential was. Just like in a type of war situation a person is just pushed to the limits. You read the Ramayana how Hanuman and these people they are fighting against those asuras, with Ravana. I mean the fight was so vicious and so… I mean they are lifting mountain tops and they are being, having their arms cut off, just going full speed day after day after day uh, its going on. One after another Ravana sending out his generals, sending out his son, sending out and they are fighting. So of course Ravana’s always get killed one after another but there was lot of casualties even on the side of Rama. Of course by some mystic arrangement they are able to save everyone. But there were a lot of restrainments put on everyone in that situation.

So even Mother Yasoda you see, her intensity of serving Krishna was so great, the gopis intensity of serving Krishna was so great, that their wasn’t, it was so intense that Uddhava came there he couldn’t believe that how every moment they are thinking of Krishna. That they were thinking of Krishna to such extent that they are mad after Krishna. That they… that Radharani was speaking to bumblebees. We find that Yasoda she was always completely in anxiety for uh, serving Krishna. Now the materialists, even the great impersonalist yogis they can’t understand that “What type of… this person is in anxiety. So how can that anxiety be understood as any kind of spiritual asset?” But in being anxious to serve Krishna, in being enthusiastic to serve Krishna, that is transcendental. And the proof is that those devotees would never exchange an ordinary anxiety as misery. If you offer someone that you take, nowadays you take what a lithium or something like that, lithium, they give these little pills, Valium, take this Valium in exchange for anxiety. So they say it’s much better than anxiety, I’ll just take a pill, you see. Or they take something else, they take a drink, or something. Everyone wants to get rid of anxiety. But these devotees they never want to get rid of their anxiety, that anxiety because it is filled with love for Krishna.

So of course a devotee should not be, uh, in English nonchalant, or they shouldn’t be take it for granted. There should always be the desire to be more fixed up, to be more enthusiastic. Enthusiasm is not a absolute. There’s not a constant that at this point, enthusiasm is something which can always have higher higher dimensions. So of course in that sense a devotee never feels self-satisfied that well I have already now peaked, now I am at the apex, I have done it, there is no higher, no greater position I can go to. That mood is not there in devotional service. It’s one of ever increasing. But when it gets to a certain point its already so exalted that from any objective viewpoint you can understand that person is already completely liberated. That all the energy is going simply to Krishna and therefore there is no karma being produced whatsoever.

So of course in the beginning uh, there may be less intensity in our uh, devotional service. Even we more or less are able to keep our consciousness but it’s just like heat, you have water you put little heat on it and you see, when it gets closer and closer to boiling, the water is moving so fast you can see if you put a little grain of rice in it its moving around and finally when it boils it’s just you know exploding the water. So like that a devotional service can also have more and more heat put on it, you know. Not so much that we… that we can’t handle it. But gradually we… we go on trying to increase that… that uh… that type of uh, intense uh, link with Krishna. So in that sense one shouldn’t take it for granted that well, one should always be trying to do more. But if a person is sincerely trying and if he is not engaged in any other type of activity, his mind is absorbed in the service, of course he should be trying more and more to increase that intensity, that fixation on Krishna, the focus on Krishna. Of course that is completely transcendental, that’s absolute good. There is nothing wrong with that.

Now if a person is able to even increase upon that, say you are able to meet so many people. Just like a person is able to engage hundred people and uh, they give something for Krishna. So that’s wonderful. There is nothing to say wrong about that whatsoever. That person should… is glorified above all great yogis and above everything else. But if another person is able to use the same opportunities and able to engage hundred people uh, twice as much or able to engage uh. the hundred people… you know two hundred people in the same period of time. So that’s better. Not that we don’t say, its better. Surely its better. If Krishna is going to judge, each person may have a capacity, it maybe that that person is even working only half his capacity you know. Due to some… materially a person may have that much physical strength that he is working at full capacity to reach the hundred. Another person may be so physically and mentally strong he could reach five hundred but he reached two fifty you see. So in that sense Krishna is going to be the ultimate judge as to what a person has capacity also materially you see.

Just like uh, sometimes when a crippled or something does some devotional service people are very amazed that, “Oh that person is crippled! How is he doing it? Because he has little… less capacity for material activities, still he is doing it.”, like that. So Krishna is going to see better, good better and best, you see. Best of course is if one is completely absorbed, you see. At a certain point it becomes… at least from our point of view that a person is so fully absorbed that there is no spilling of any energy and the person gets the reciprocation from Krishna constantly and the people are engaged not only in giving but actually they become attracted to surrender to Krishna, to chanting Hare Krishna.

So we are always trying to go higher and higher in our intensity of devotional service but we don’t look at it in a material sense, that if a person doesn’t have the same capacity but he is trying hard then we’re completely, that person is glorified. You can’t consider exactly at that level but of course a leader or a senior person who is responsible to help that person to devotional service should see whether or not that person is working up to their capacity, you see. If they can work even, if they have a greater capacity then that person is going to get more reciprocation from Krishna by giving out more energy. And the only way you can know it, sometimes by putting a little pressure and then you can see, like in business what they do is they give a person more and more, more and more responsibility until finally the person can’t handle it. Then they reduce that. They have a term for that. They keep putting a person promotions, until he gets to the Senior Vice President, he can’t handle it. Now he is finished. Then he’ll never get another promotion again. As long as the person takes on more and more and more and more and more responsibility and handles it they keep on promoting him. And if he peaks out, he doesn’t handle it any more, all right, you stay in this position. It’s very hard for them to get promotions.

So it’s like that in devotional service we go on, the only way we can know what our capacity is take a little more and if you find our consciousness is little strained, it’s too distracted, all right then we say you know we take the humble attitude, and we try to maintain whatever level we can, so these types of intense pressure it also builds up its like weight lifting, it builds up our capacity also. Sometimes we take intense for short time, we can take a little extra load. All the time we may not be able to maintain but for little time you maintain and then that actually increases our capacity more and more.

In the Asian Games in Delhi, a person he did a compression or something, a snapped I don’t know. He did some kind of weight lifting, he did 358 kilos, broke the world record and so they are only allowed three in the Olympic Games but he had already broke the record, and then the other person said “I want a chance” cause he had done 357 or something like that. So then because he had already… so there extra extra snap. The competition was already over it was just for making the record cause all the judges were there, it was official. So then the other person snapped 385 and a half, beat by half. Then the other person “I get one more chance.”, he did you know 350, whatever was another half because you know at that moment there was so much pressure so that they had some extra special…

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for the times when if I didn’t you know, if I just stuck to it and I tolerated that stress and I worked under it and tried to fulfill the duties that Prabhupada gave. That was the time after I surrendered to the stress after I just like went with it, I didn’t try to fight it. Instead I tried to surrender and just go with it, I found the most intense uh, feeling of reciprocation with the previous spiritual masters and Krishna.

So generally we all have our little governor in our consciousness how much we want to give to Krishna. We don’t realize it but we have a governor. That we have our little limit that we think up to this point and then Krishna takes us to that point and we don’t want to surrender beyond that point. But if we just surrender then we realize that “Well…”, in this way we go on to higher and higher reciprocation with Krishna. Sometimes it is physical surrender, sometimes it’s more mental, attachments, different things but. That’s why this Krishna consciousness movement itself is a what do you say, its boiling the ghee, something like that. Its where you actually, it forces people to surrender. It’s very difficult for materialists and non-devotees to stay in the Krishna consciousness movement. it ? different people. After some time they all run away. It’s too difficult because Krishna forces a person either to surrender or you know to just find it incompatible. So of course generally in association of devotees people find it compatible when they’re sincerely desiring to be God conscious, desiring to achieve the truth. Then uh, they just go on advancing. If a person is not sincere then uh, there’s some conflicts in the persons mind. A person gets many chances to get over that and if a person can get over all these little conflicts then a person can achieve Krishna even in this life.

Hare Krishna. More questions, or deity… More question?

Devotee: Where does the stress come from when someone who’s increasing his devotional service? Why is it there?

Jayapataka Swami: Attachment. All off of… Sometimes the stress is external. Sometimes obstacles are put up by demons so that creates a kind of distressful situation but if a person by learning to surrender to Krishna in those times by being tolerant you see, we have to learn tolerance, something that we have forgotten, something that can be, tolerance level can be built up, you see. Just like in the airplane I was just flying over… and Singapore Airline there was one person who was very nasty to the steward but the steward completely kept his cool and just returned by saying “Yes sir I will…" the person was completely obnoxious, completely off the wall or something but the person just became very cool in reciprocation and just uh, very suavely you know, replied the person.

I was in Eastern Airways and some person who had drunk a few drinks just said a little something, an American guy he said, “You are not getting any drinks! You want to stay on the plane? No drinks! Otherwise, you get off!” This is the way he dealt you know. A person immediately, he could have been a little nicer, listen buddy you had too many, take it easy, you know. but no the guy was so much on the air that steward, that as soon as he said immediately you know he got all riled up.

So you know it’s a question of training. Therefore Singapore Airline gets a number one rating in the world and Eastern is not within the rating, within America. They don’t make even the top ten anywhere. But Singapore and Swiss are considered to be the best service in the world in terms of airline just because the stewards there are trained.

So we can also be trained in tolerance you see. Generally in America we are trained not to be tolerant for any kind of austerity. Rather they go to… out… to no end to creating new inventions how you can avoid any kind of austerity you see. While living in India one has to always take austerity because there is just no facility for aust… for anything but austerity, there is no modern facilities like that. But uh… on one level, here I find it very austere in the West for other reasons, different types of austerities, anyway its all relative. But the main thing is we build up our tolerance to uh... uh, accept these different kinds of difficulties that may come up and rather than relate with them or start to become body-conscious or mental-conscious unnecessarily, to become agitated by them we overcome them by uh, fixing our mind on Krishna.

Yes?

Devotee: I’ve heard that then, when you tolerate that stress and continue to serve… does that mean your… the attachment went away, probably?

Jayapataka Swami: Yes, especially if you tolerate them, just like it says in the Nectar of Devotion, say that you stub your foot, at that moment instead of saying Ouch! Or something or whatever some other thing, then you say Krishna! So that you don’t have to take another… just by that alone you can get liberation. So the point is that when you are in distress then where do you turn to? You turn to your mind, you turn to some other shelter, where do you take shelter? When the pressure is on where do you go for shelter, you know? I know devotees who chant Hare Krishna but when the going gets rough, when they get agitated, when they have difficulty, you know, they go out and take a drug on the side, they bloop, kind of half-bloop and now they are very weak. If there is any difficulty they can’t learn, they don’t take shelter of Krishna. Instead they go and take drugs. Therefore you know they take a marijuana or something. Of course those are people who are not generally in our temples but I know there is people like that that as soon as going gets rough they surrender to Maya you see, instead of chanting more intensely, hearing more carefully, uh, reading the sastras, absorbing… taking shelter. “My mind is being agitated by something, either my own body or some external cause.”, and so at that moment to actually depend upon take shelter of Krishna that is the best training for us.

If we learn to depend on Krishna in difficulty, then at time of death when it comes the final exam when that death is facing us, we are not going to turn to something else, “Oh! I am in big trouble now, give me this, give me…”, no. Just surrender to Krishna, then we go back to Krishna. Death is a very painful thing, painful situation, so how are we going to face that if we are already completely habituated to facing so many difficulties and always depending on Krishna, if it is a reflex. Any difficulty comes we learn to depend on Krishna. Then naturally in death we will depend upon Krishna, in every situation we will depend upon Krishna. Therefore the devotee is always protected. But if we learn to depend on any other material thing then we have to again come back till we learn not to rely on any designation or anything else other than Krishna.

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He is our only crutch, He is our guide, Guru and Krishna. Remember the words of the Guru. Is that all right?

Devotee: Jaya.

People always make so many crutches. America is the land of crutches. (laughs) Big, big leaders depending on, having you know so many drinks a day, and so many pills, so many this and so many that. If they don’t have it, so many cigarettes.

Actually our philosophy “Simple living and high thinking” means we eliminate unnecessary crutches, you see. We are already limited we have to depend upon the body. If the body gets sick, doesn't move we can’t go. We are already limited. But as far as possible for our own spiritual and mental inspiration we depend on Krishna. So they say “Well that’s a crutch! But that’s only the real thing, you see! That’s the only bona-fide crutch.” So if you don’t believe in God then you say depending on God is well it’s a non-existing crutch. So therefore we have no crutch. And then if you believe in God. If you don’t believe in God that’s the… only depending on God, then what’s the crutch? If I believe on a crutch that doesn’t exist then that means I am self-sufficient if you are atheist. Right? And if there is God then what’s the harm? He is the ultimately supporting the whole universe and everything so what’s the harm. Everything is depending upon Him by definition, God being the basis the origin and the creator of everything. So depending on Him is completely valid. Everything is depending on Him. So whether you believe or don’t believe to depend on God, there is nothing wrong. One’s independent of everything else, self-sufficient.

Hare Krishna.

Devotees: Jaya Srila Acaryapada!

Devotee: Srila Acaryapada ki,

Devotees: Jaya!

[End of Recording]


Transcriber: Suvilasi Madhavi dd Date: 28 April 2015